What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

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robroy
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

Hey Robert, thanks for replying!
DuckRyder wrote:You can probably raise it quite a bit with then attached (at least on a C6 the bellhousing will hit before the headers) but It won't come out with them attached...
I see! Yeah I can imagine how it wouldn't come out with the headers on. But I'm happy to say that I was indeed able to lift it up with them on! A detailed update is forthcoming.

Thanks Robert!
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

After draining the oil last night, I got the oil pan bolts removed.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4235z.JPG http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4236z.JPG

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More soon,
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

Here's the carburetor being pulled, the lift plate being installed, and the engine being lifted. As usual, the links under the 600px wide images go to large resolution editions.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4238.JPG

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4239.JPG

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4240.JPG

The engine resting in its mounts.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4241.JPG

The engine lifted up a few inches. I had to loosen the transmission mount bolts, but almost everything else reached just fine, including the lower radiator hose.

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More in a moment,
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

With the engine lifted up enough, I was able to pull the oil pan, then remove the oil pump pickup tube, then pull the infamous windage tray.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4246z.JPG

The oil pump looked just like I remembered.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4252z.JPG

I didn't know of a good way to get a wide enough depth of field to have the entire crankshaft in focus, from the angle I was taking the photo. The photo on the left has the front half in focus, while the photo on the right has the back half in focus.

ImageImage
http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4253z.JPG http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4254z.JPG

Stay tuned,
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by 70_F100 »

The suspense is KILLING me!!! :pop: :pop:
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.--Plato
Why is it that there's seldom time to fix it right the first time, but there's always time to fix it right the second time???

That's not an oil leak :nono: That's SWEAT from all that HORSEPOWER!! :thup:
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

It's with tremendous relief and gratitude that I present photos of The Problem. Or so I think. Do you think I've found it?

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4272z.JPG

You can see three places on the windage tray that have been getting too friendly with the crankshaft!!! Let's see them up close.

Here are two shots of the one in the middle. It's the nastiest of the three.

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Here's the one on the right:

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And here's the one on the left:

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And here's more evidence of foul play--metal shavings in the oil pan.

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http://www.robroygregg.com/Number50/IMG_4280z.JPG

Is the problem nailed?

THANKS!!!
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by BobbyFord »

70_F100 wrote:The suspense is KILLING me!!! :pop: :pop:
TWO bags of popcorn?!!!
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by 70_F100 »

Robroy, I just looked closely at the last photo on the left.

Are those metal particles on the bottom of the oil pump?
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.--Plato
Why is it that there's seldom time to fix it right the first time, but there's always time to fix it right the second time???

That's not an oil leak :nono: That's SWEAT from all that HORSEPOWER!! :thup:
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by DuckRyder »

robroy wrote:Is the problem nailed?
I would say so.

Two options:

1) clearance the Milodon tray with a die grinder or similar...
2) replace it with an FRPP tray, which doesen't extend into that area...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6687-A390/
Robert
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by DuckRyder »

Oh,

and lets see the corresponding areas of the crankshaft/rods...

Was it the crank or the rod bolts...

At the very minimum, you are going to have to change the oil filter...

How long did you run it?
Robert
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by BobbyFord »

70_F100 wrote:Robroy, I just looked closely at the last photo on the left.

Are those metal particles on the bottom of the oil pump?
If they are, I would pull the pump apart for cleaning and inspection, clean out the pick-up and replace the oil filter before firing it up again. You also may want to spray the crank throws and inside of the block down with something to make sure all of the shavings are out. And as suggested, trim the tray.
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by DuckRyder »

BobbyFord wrote:
70_F100 wrote:Robroy, I just looked closely at the last photo on the left.

Are those metal particles on the bottom of the oil pump?
If they are, I would pull the pump apart for cleaning and inspection, clean out the pick-up and replace the oil filter before firing it up again. You also may want to spray the crank throws and inside of the block down with something to make sure all of the shavings are out. And as suggested, trim the tray.
I agree and depending on how long it ran it may be prudent to go further.

I think you should call the builder and discuss it with them, since you had to change the pan and windage tray due to it having incompatible parts installed I think they should bear some responsibility for this.

Many would say the bearings should be inspected, but without seeing how much metal was in the drained oil and how long it ran, its difficult to say how bad the damage could be...
Robert
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by BobbyFord »

DuckRyder wrote:...Many would say the bearings should be inspected, but without seeing how much metal was in the drained oil and how long it ran, its difficult to say how bad the damage could be...
The oil went through the filter before heading to the bearings so I think he'd be ok there. :hmm:
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

Hey 70_F100, Robert, and BobbyFord, thanks for your great replies!
70_F100 wrote:Robroy, I just looked closely at the last photo on the left.

Are those metal particles on the bottom of the oil pump?
Yes I think they were, but their size was drastically exaggerated by the camera's flash. I wiped the area off with a paper towel and looked at the towel, and the metal shavings had vanished in the towel. I guess that doesn't make them much less dangerous though!
DuckRyder wrote:
robroy wrote:Is the problem nailed?
I would say so.

Two options:

1) clearance the Milodon tray with a die grinder or similar...
2) replace it with an FRPP tray, which doesen't extend into that area...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-6687-A390/
Hey Robert, thanks for these options! I'd normally just clearance the Milodon tray and re-use it, but the area of the Milodon that surrounds the oil pump is very close to the pump. It's so close that it's really annoying to install and remove the tray. The pickup tube needs to be removed each time.

Is this FRPP tray you've linked to the same as the Cobra Jet tray?
DuckRyder wrote:Oh,

and lets see the corresponding areas of the crankshaft/rods...

Was it the crank or the rod bolts...
I'll take the best photos I'm able to and post them!
DuckRyder wrote:At the very minimum, you are going to have to change the oil filter...
Hey that's no sweat--thanks for pointing this out. I actually wouldn't have changed it on my own, without your advice!
DuckRyder wrote:How long did you run it?
The engine ran for a total of about ten minutes, of which eight minutes was spent idling. I arrived at this ten minute estimate by adding up all the times I fired the engine up to look for where the sound was coming from.

Now that I see that running the engine was probably spreading metal shavings around, I am REALLY glad I didn't run it more! Thanks for warning me about that previously in this thread.
BobbyFord wrote:
70_F100 wrote:Are those metal particles on the bottom of the oil pump?
If they are, I would pull the pump apart for cleaning and inspection, clean out the pick-up and replace the oil filter before firing it up again. You also may want to spray the crank throws and inside of the block down with something to make sure all of the shavings are out. And as suggested, trim the tray.
Thanks for this great advice! I wouldn't have thought of pulling the oil pump apart, but that's probably a good idea. There's no time it'll be easier to access than now.

Thanks for the great replies!
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Re: What's this loud tapping sound from my new engine?

Post by robroy »

DuckRyder wrote:I think you should call the builder and discuss it with them, since you had to change the pan and windage tray due to it having incompatible parts installed I think they should bear some responsibility for this.
Will do! I can guess what their response will be already though, based on my previous interactions. It'll be "don't worry about it." We'll see!
DuckRyder wrote:Many would say the bearings should be inspected, but without seeing how much metal was in the drained oil and how long it ran, its difficult to say how bad the damage could be...
I'll look at the drained oil carefully! I didn't see any metal flakes in it, but I wasn't looking very closely at the time.
BobbyFord wrote: The oil went through the filter before heading to the bearings so I think he'd be ok there. :hmm:
Hey I hope you're right! I guess some of the shavings could have passed through the filter, but it's hard to say.

Thanks again for the superb guidance!
Robroy
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